In 1903 the Agua Caleinte Cupeno were removed from their ancestral tribal home, the Village of Kupa also known as Warner's Hot Springs. The Cupeno were forced onto the Pala Indian Reservation. This is known as the Cupeno Trail of Tears.
On June 1st, 2011 and February 1st, 2012 162 Warner Ranch Evictee Agua Caliente Cupeno were removed from the PBMI Association by the Pala Enrollment Committee. This is our Second Trail of Tears.
Friday, January 8, 2016
Agua Caliente Cupeno vs Kevin Washburn Joint Status Report
Agua Caliente Tribe of Cupeno Indians vs. Assistant Secretary Indian Affairs Kevin Washburn Joint Status Report
Sorry, I should have said cross motions. One side will argue for dismissal. That would be the BIA. The other side will argue that the court should grant their claims without further proceedings since both parties agree on the facts. That would be the Agua Caliente Tribe.
The Trujillos case has different claims. If they win it will mean that the AS-IA decision will be remanded with instructions. The instructions will be to revoke the approval of the Pala Constitution, to rule the Pala Enrollment Ordinance is void, to enforce the 1989 Final decision and to join the Ravago children with the Plaintiffs.
That is what they are asking for anyway. The court will have to decide to uphold the dismissal or reverse the lower decision to dismiss. I won't comment on the details. This much is public and won't compromise the case of the Plaintiffs, who I hope are successful.
So what R&R is trying to say is to wish in one hand and ---- in the other. He knows these are a lost cause. I think he is building up a cash reserve to be paid to him by the attorneys if they win any case. Just my thoughts though.
@6:56 that makes no sense. It's a lost cause but he's building up a cash reserve for himself if they do win. So where is this hidden fortune and died it just poof disappear with the list cause. Typical fork tongue speak.
What has happened is that a new judge has been assigned. It happens quite often. I have idea what you are talking about as far as a cash reserve.
This lawsuit does not involve monetary damages. No one gets any money except the attorneys who will be paid there legitimate fees.
I think we have good evidence but I am not the judge. The BIA does not dispute the evidence. The JSR says they plan to file for dismissal. The grounds for dismissal are failure to exhaust administrative remedy. That means they want us to wait until they issue a decision and that the court can't force them to issue a decision.
This is not a lost cause. The BIA position is based on historical actions. They have made past errors. We can prove they made a mistake with Agua Caliente.
Keep optimistic. Unless you're one of Robert Smith's cronies.
I hope the trujillos win there case. They will be considered Heroes. It will affect all brittian descendants. It will be nice to be a reservation that is not frowned upon be dis enrollment.
They will be considered members of the Pala Band of Mission Indians. I am a lineal descendant of Esperanza Trujillo, and a proud member of the Agua Caliente Tribe of Cupeno Indians. The decision will verify what we already know. We are all entitled to share in the land, assets, and resources on the Pala Reservation as descendants of an original 1913 Pala allottee.
The decision will not remove the hard feelings about the disenrollments, or change the feelings of the Pala members who wanted the Trujillos out. However, it will be better for the political and legal condition of the Band since there will be voters who actually care about the law instead of just doing whatever it takes to keep the per capita checks coming.
What are the eligibility requirements for enrollment in the Agua Caliente Band of Cupeno Indians? Blood quantum? Will this tribe get federal recognition? Will the tribe share land and resources with the Pala Band of Luiseno Indians? Where do I get an enrollment application?
Contact the owner of this blog. He will notify you regarding the enrollment applications. Cupeno blood of the band is a requirement.
I can't comment on whether or not the BIA will publish the tribe on the List of Federally Recognized Tribes. It is one of the claims in the lawsuit discussed in this Joint Status Report.
The Pala Band of Luiseno Mission Indians aren't organized, have no governing document, no elected leaders, and no federally recognized membership roll. It would be impossible to share with them until such time as they organize.
My understanding is oral arguments will happen in February before a 3 judge panel of the 9th Circuit. And then they will issue a judgement. Will it happen in 24 hours? To me this is doubtful. It will likely be 3 to 6 months before a decision is rendered but who knows, maybe shorter, maybe longer. If I am wrong please inform me.
And even if the Trujillos "win" before the 3 judge panel the BIA could appeal to the full 9th Circuit. How long will that take?
Let's say the BIA does not appeal to the full 9th Circuit, then the decision is remanded to the lower court. How long will the lower court take to rule? And what will they rule?
I have no idea.
As far as anyone being able to "re-enroll" with the non-Federaly recognized entity known as the Pala Band of Mission Indians aka PBMI, the disenrollments were illegal to begin with in my opinion. There is no need for "re-enrollment". In fact I would argue Pala's EC cannot disenroll. All their governing documents are invalid and contradictory. The BIA is derelict in their fiduciary responsibility to protect the assets of Individual Native Americans duly enrolled with the PBMI as descendants of 1913 Allotees.
PBMI is not a tribe.
At this point it's all guess work. Make your guess and decide what you think. It is better if you base your guess on some semblance of the facts.
The disenrollments were based on personal agendas of Robert. Not on facts. There is a lot of physical evidence that proves the brittians belong. Robert won't be chairman forever. Once he is gone the rolls will be fixed and we can go back to being our peaceful village. I'm pretty sure I'll out live Robert.
If the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals overturns the lower court decision then the dismissal would be reversed and the AS-IA decision will be remanded with instructions. How long will it take for the Court to issue a decision after the hearing? 3-6 months is a good estimate.
Would the BIA appeal? No way to know what they will do. At this point the arguments of the Plaintiffs are such that it might not be a good thing for the BIA to appeal. However, we have seen that they are committed to their errors.
How long will it take for the AS-IA to remand his decision? The Plaintiff needs to help the Court by requesting a reasonable time frame. Otherwise the AS-IA can take as long as he wants.
If the Court instructs the AS-IA to revoke approval of the Pala Constitution, there could be a problem. I don't want to go into it anymore than that.
The Pala Constitution says that members may not be enrolled in any other federally recognized tribe. If the Agua Caliente Tribe is published on the List of Federally Recognized Tribes, then its members would still be members of only one federally recognized tribe since the Pala Band of Mission Indians is not a tribe. It would not be a violation of tribal law to belong to both the Band and the Tribe.
It would then be up to each individual whether they want to be enrolled in both or to choose one or the other. Luckily for us Cupenos we believe that people have the right to make decisions for themselves. We don't have to dictate to them in order to protect any schemes of corruption.
It means nothing Robert still picks and chooses who he lets be a member. Blood degree does not matter at Pala it's a private club with a board that votes in. Only requirement be a family member or a kiss a@@ so they know they have your vote. Robert and Theresa would rather have a tribe full of adopted members with no blood or little that votes their way and doesn't ask questions than a tribe with all full blood cupenos.
20 comments:
Little Pig, Little Pig let me in. The wolves are growling.
Huh what?
The Parties in this case appear to agree on the facts as cited. That could be grounds for competing motions for summary judgment. We shall see,
What is a competing motion? what does this mean for the case? If the trujillo's win how does this effect this case?
Sorry, I should have said cross motions. One side will argue for dismissal. That would be the BIA. The other side will argue that the court should grant their claims without further proceedings since both parties agree on the facts. That would be the Agua Caliente Tribe.
The Trujillos case has different claims. If they win it will mean that the AS-IA decision will be remanded with instructions. The instructions will be to revoke the approval of the Pala Constitution, to rule the Pala Enrollment Ordinance is void, to enforce the 1989 Final decision and to join the Ravago children with the Plaintiffs.
That is what they are asking for anyway. The court will have to decide to uphold the dismissal or reverse the lower decision to dismiss. I won't comment on the details. This much is public and won't compromise the case of the Plaintiffs, who I hope are successful.
So what R&R is trying to say is to wish in one hand and ---- in the other. He knows these are a lost cause. I think he is building up a cash reserve to be paid to him by the attorneys if they win any case. Just my thoughts though.
@6:56 that makes no sense. It's a lost cause but he's building up a cash reserve for himself if they do win. So where is this hidden fortune and died it just poof disappear with the list cause. Typical fork tongue speak.
What has happened is that a new judge has been assigned. It happens quite often. I have idea what you are talking about as far as a cash reserve.
This lawsuit does not involve monetary damages. No one gets any money except the attorneys who will be paid there legitimate fees.
I think we have good evidence but I am not the judge. The BIA does not dispute the evidence. The JSR says they plan to file for dismissal. The grounds for dismissal are failure to exhaust administrative remedy. That means they want us to wait until they issue a decision and that the court can't force them to issue a decision.
This is not a lost cause. The BIA position is based on historical actions. They have made past errors. We can prove they made a mistake with Agua Caliente.
Keep optimistic. Unless you're one of Robert Smith's cronies.
I hope the trujillos win there case. They will be considered Heroes. It will affect all brittian descendants. It will be nice to be a reservation that is not frowned upon be dis enrollment.
They will be considered members of the Pala Band of Mission Indians. I am a lineal descendant of Esperanza Trujillo, and a proud member of the Agua Caliente Tribe of Cupeno Indians. The decision will verify what we already know. We are all entitled to share in the land, assets, and resources on the Pala Reservation as descendants of an original 1913 Pala allottee.
The decision will not remove the hard feelings about the disenrollments, or change the feelings of the Pala members who wanted the Trujillos out. However, it will be better for the political and legal condition of the Band since there will be voters who actually care about the law instead of just doing whatever it takes to keep the per capita checks coming.
What are the eligibility requirements for enrollment in the Agua Caliente Band of Cupeno Indians? Blood quantum? Will this tribe get federal recognition? Will the tribe share land and resources with the Pala Band of Luiseno Indians? Where do I get an enrollment application?
Contact the owner of this blog. He will notify you regarding the enrollment applications. Cupeno blood of the band is a requirement.
I can't comment on whether or not the BIA will publish the tribe on the List of Federally Recognized Tribes. It is one of the claims in the lawsuit discussed in this Joint Status Report.
The Pala Band of Luiseno Mission Indians aren't organized, have no governing document, no elected leaders, and no federally recognized membership roll. It would be impossible to share with them until such time as they organize.
But if the trujillos win there case and your in rolled in the agua caliente tribe you will not be able to be re enrolled into PBMI. Is that correct?
@January 27, 2016 at 4:45 PM
When do you think the Trujillos will "win"?
My understanding is oral arguments will happen in February before a 3 judge panel of the 9th Circuit. And then they will issue a judgement. Will it happen in 24 hours? To me this is doubtful. It will likely be 3 to 6 months before a decision is rendered but who knows, maybe shorter, maybe longer. If I am wrong please inform me.
And even if the Trujillos "win" before the 3 judge panel the BIA could appeal to the full 9th Circuit. How long will that take?
Let's say the BIA does not appeal to the full 9th Circuit, then the decision is remanded to the lower court. How long will the lower court take to rule? And what will they rule?
I have no idea.
As far as anyone being able to "re-enroll" with the non-Federaly recognized entity known as the Pala Band of Mission Indians aka PBMI, the disenrollments were illegal to begin with in my opinion. There is no need for "re-enrollment". In fact I would argue Pala's EC cannot disenroll. All their governing documents are invalid and contradictory. The BIA is derelict in their fiduciary responsibility to protect the assets of Individual Native Americans duly enrolled with the PBMI as descendants of 1913 Allotees.
PBMI is not a tribe.
At this point it's all guess work. Make your guess and decide what you think. It is better if you base your guess on some semblance of the facts.
The disenrollments were based on personal agendas of Robert. Not on facts. There is a lot of physical evidence that proves the brittians belong. Robert won't be chairman forever. Once he is gone the rolls will be fixed and we can go back to being our peaceful village. I'm pretty sure I'll out live Robert.
If the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals overturns the lower court decision then the dismissal would be reversed and the AS-IA decision will be remanded with instructions. How long will it take for the Court to issue a decision after the hearing? 3-6 months is a good estimate.
Would the BIA appeal? No way to know what they will do. At this point the arguments of the Plaintiffs are such that it might not be a good thing for the BIA to appeal. However, we have seen that they are committed to their errors.
How long will it take for the AS-IA to remand his decision? The Plaintiff needs to help the Court by requesting a reasonable time frame. Otherwise the AS-IA can take as long as he wants.
If the Court instructs the AS-IA to revoke approval of the Pala Constitution, there could be a problem. I don't want to go into it anymore than that.
The Pala Constitution says that members may not be enrolled in any other federally recognized tribe. If the Agua Caliente Tribe is published on the List of Federally Recognized Tribes, then its members would still be members of only one federally recognized tribe since the Pala Band of Mission Indians is not a tribe. It would not be a violation of tribal law to belong to both the Band and the Tribe.
It would then be up to each individual whether they want to be enrolled in both or to choose one or the other. Luckily for us Cupenos we believe that people have the right to make decisions for themselves. We don't have to dictate to them in order to protect any schemes of corruption.
The enrollments are open in Pala right now. You can get an application at the Admin building.
The last day for the apps is the 28th of Feb. 2016.
@feb 8,
So what does that mean?
It means nothing Robert still picks and chooses who he lets be a member. Blood degree does not matter at Pala it's a private club with a board that votes in. Only requirement be a family member or a kiss a@@ so they know they have your vote. Robert and Theresa would rather have a tribe full of adopted members with no blood or little that votes their way and doesn't ask questions than a tribe with all full blood cupenos.
Open enrollment means nothing to MB descendants
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